Israel, the Arabs and terrorism, bin Laden and the Americans
You ran into this problem with other orchestras too? Wherever there are Jews. Wherever there are orchestras controlled by Jewish people, they boycott my work. You really feel Jews control much of the music world? Yes. And the same applies to world finance? In America, the Jewish community is very strong. It controls much of the economy. Certainly mass media. Let me make myself clear: When the State of Israel was established, we were on the side of Israel. There was great sympathy toward Zionism because of what they suffered in the war. This is one side of the Jews. But the international Jewish community is also a negative phenomena. The Jewish people now appear to control the big banks. And often governments. So whatever bad or evil comes from governments is natural for ordinary people to associate with the Jewish people. You yourself think that the Jews, the international Jewish community, have control of the banks, Wall Street, mass media? Yes. And you say that now, through its influence on Bush, it has control of world affairs? Yes. I believe that the war in Iraq and the aggressive attitude toward Iran is greatly influenced by Israeli secret services. The Jews have so much power that they can direct the policy of the world’s only superpower? There is a group of Jews who surround Bush and control the policy of the US. So the Jews pull the strings behind Bush? No. They are in the front. America, the great superpower, is actually controlled today by the Jews? Yes. What are the intentions of the Jews who control President Bush? The main front is the Arabs. They believe that by hitting the Arabs, they could help Israel survive. They give a military solution to the problem of the future existence of Israel. But the present American policy is a reaction to 9/11. It’s a response to the threat of bin Laden. First you have to ask who bin Laden is. There are peculiar things here. He worked for the Americans in the past. Even when 9/11 happened, he could have been working for the US secret services. I don’t want to say that those who hit the Twin Towers were the Americans themselves. It would be madness to say that. But American technology was used in 9/11. Is it possible that it was provocation? In the US, there are many forces. There are super patriots there. I think the part bin Laden played is suspicious. Are you saying that there was some sort of American conspiracy? I don’t believe that the barefoot men of Afghanistan did it. That’s a joke. Not even Japanese technology could do it. Not even German technology. Is it possible that the Mossad played a part in 9/11? The Mossad has the technology. But even they are not a superpower. America controls everything. Mikis Theodorakis, on several occasions, when criticizing Israeli policy, you used the Nazi analogy. Criticism of Israeli occupation is justified. But why use terms such as «Israel’s Nazi mentality» or «Israel’s Nazi barbarity»? To me it seems very natural to make this comparison because Israel is very much connected with Nazism. I wrote this to you this morning: After the Holocaust, the Jew is the anti-Nazi. Forever. You are condemned to be that. Six million voices are calling on you. They are calling out, never again camps. They cannot even imagine that Israel would adopt similar methods. There is no need for Israel to create the gas chambers. If you kill women and children, it’s a similar thing. Israel is doing wrong in the West Bank and Gaza. No argument about that. But why not compare it to the French in Algiers or the Dutch in Indonesia. Going for the ultimate analogy of evil seems to show an inability to accept the Jews as gray. If they are not white, they are the darkest black. If they are not victims, they are murderers. Until the Holocaust, the Jewish people were victims. One day they said: «I don’t want to be a victim any longer. I’ll create a state. I’ll show that I’m strong.» The question is whether this is a historical trap. If you didn’t embark on the road to revenge. What do you mean? After World War I, the Germans were victims. The Germans felt they were victims. They felt they were just. Others did them wrong and they were just. That was the seed of Hitler. So the Jews of today are like the Germans of the 1920s and ’30s? Hitler, too, said we are not going to be victims any more. We’ll arm ourselves and we’ll have revenge. Look where it led. That is something that could happen to Israel. That’s exactly my point. You want us as sheep. You even love us as sheep. But you cannot come to terms with the idea that we may use force like any other nation. The Jews escaped from the wolves’ teeth. And you got on boats to go to the land of your ancestors. Who wasn’t with Israel then? I was. We all were. You took a barren land and you turned it green. You created the kibbutz, which is the only successful example of democratic communism. You created a civilized nation. And when we saw you defend yourselves after half of you remained in the gas chambers, we were with you. You were David and we stood by you. But this changed. Israel became a superpower. It has nuclear arms. It is very strong. And whom are you fighting? A million women and children and poorly trained Palestinians. So you are Goliath now. Palestine is David. And I am with David. But it goes further than that? You think there was a dramatic transformation here. You think the Jews were transformed from being the Nazis’ victims to being the new Nazis? It was a gradual process. The fact that the Jews were led to the gas chambers in a peaceful way, almost like lambs, troubled them deeply. They wanted to show that they are not sheep. That they can become wolves. Up to a point this is natural. It’s human. But you should have become wolf dogs, not wolves. I think there is an element of racism here. You Israelis begin to think that you are superior to the Arabs just because you have financial power and a strong army and an alliance with the superpower. Do you think we developed a Nazi-like superiority complex? When you go and blow up houses, what is it? It’s similar to Nazi behavior. When you uproot trees, what is it? It’s Nazi behavior. When you order people out of their homes within an hour, what is it? It’s Nazi behavior. It’s Nazi mentality. Let’s leave politics aside. When you look at us Jews as a whole, what do you find impressive and what is intolerable? When I was in Israel, I loved the madness of the people there. The brains. The joy of life. The drunkenness. A normal person gets drunk when he drinks wine. A Jew gets drunk without wine. You too. You don’t have to drink at all. You are drunk already. I also loved the girl in the kibbutz who would wake up in the morning to work the land and have her gun with her. She knew how to protect her country and fight for her country. I found that very attractive. She was a beautiful girl. Like honey, and when she was holding the gun, she was even more beautiful. I was much younger then. I was attracted to the heroism of Israel. The Jews are a historic phenomenon that attracts me enormously. I am envious of it. I don’t think anyone can be indifferent to it. And what don’t you like about us? On a personal level, nothing. You are no different from me or anyone else. But what I don’t accept in the Jewish people is what I don’t accept in the Freemasons. The Masonic Lodge is a group of people who help each other just because they are members of that lodge. That happens among the Jews as well. Especially in sensitive areas like art and music. I don’t accept that. The Jews have too much power? In certain areas – yes. I don’t like these small groupings that support one another. I view them as expressions of a racist approach. National or religious or Mafia clans are cancerous growths. What troubles you is that Jews maintain a ghetto attitude even when they are not weak anymore. When they are powerful. Yes. I ran into it in music, but it happens elsewhere. Especially in finance. And in the mass media. This is what makes the Jews unattractive. You think there is a Jewish tendency to dominate? To dominate? Yes. And it comes with a superiority complex. So the sense of superiority and the tendency to control are a feature of the Jews? Yes. Yes. I think that the Jewish religion that teaches a child from a very young age that our God is very strong gives him a sense of security. So there is a contradiction there: The people who were historically the most fearful, are mentally the less fearful because of their religion. But now, when they have great power, this attitude becomes dangerous.
