‘The end of Putin’s era has started’
Former Russian PM talks about the man he once worked closely with
How does the Russian president think? Is he contemplating a compromise to end the war? For these and many other questions which have been bothering international circles for months, Kathimerini approached a man who not only knows Vladimir Putin but has worked with him at the highest level: the former prime minister of the Russian Federation during Putin’s first presidency, Mikhail Kasyanov.
Kasyanov, who also served as finance minister during the Yeltsin presidency, is now a critic of Putin’s policies and is in an undisclosed location outside Russia from where he agreed to be interviewed.
As prime minister of Russia and a close collaborator of Putin, were you aware of what is being said today, that Putin envisioned the rebirth of the USSR?
No, absolutely not. At that time, it was an absolutely different mood and President Putin did not act that way. In my time, we were absolutely preoccupied with the reforms and we were trying to be closer to the European Union. We had very good relations with the United States and we had expanded our trade, while direct investments started to flow to the territory of Russia, therefore we started to grow.
Do you consider the evacuation of Kherson to be a sign of retreat? Or did he strategically sacrifice a pawn for his next move?
‘He did not want to lose Kherson, but he positioned himself in a way that there is no way back. That is how he was cornered. He does not know what to do’
Yes, that is a sign of retreat. But it is a coordinated retreat because it was clear that Putin’s army is not capable of keeping this territory and advancing further. However, the propaganda does not describe it as a retreat. But people, of course, and all those propagandists in Russia, understand that is a real change in the whole situation and the mood is changing. And I think that many Russians started to reconsider their stance on Putin.
Many analysts speculate that Putin evacuated Kherson to use small-scale nuclear weapons. Do you hold this view?
No, of course he did not want to lose Kherson, but he positioned himself in such a way that there is no way back. That is how he was cornered. He does not know what to do. He is very nervous. He does not want to be defeated, but he cannot win. And for him, that is a disaster, a psychological disaster. And we see how nervous he is. During the announcement of the withdrawal of the troops from there, he just disappeared and he did not want this decision to be connected with him. But people of course understand that it is only he who could make such a decision. That is why I am saying that the general attitude of people, ordinary Russians, as well as the people in his circle, started to change.
How have the economic sanctions affected the public view in Russia?
When all those sanctions were announced in spring, the economists calculated that there would be a real disaster for the Russian economy and it would be a very quick contraction of the economy. But, as you know, the decision-making process of sanctions was slowed down because of a simple reason, the energy sector, which is very sensitive for the European Union. And that is why instead of squeezing the economy by 10-11%, as the economists predicted, the sanctions just managed to press the economy, while the GDP is set to fall around 6-7% this year.
How could this war end and what is a possible victory for Russia?
For Russia, there is no win. President Putin wanted to win and demonstrate himself as the collector of the Russian lands and that he is the most respected, most powerful leader in the world. But he failed. And it is already clear that the end of Putin’s era has started, that it is the beginning of the end. I think this process of the end will last approximately two years. But it is already clear that President Putin did not and will not achieve what he wanted to achieve. But he created big problems for Russia, for the Russian people. Russia will suffer and is already suffering.
These days diplomatic relations between Russia and Greece are in a gray zone. How did Russian politics view Greece’s role back in your day?
In my day we had a great vision for the whole European Union and Greece in particular. And there was no doubt that we wanted to board a boat and sail in the same direction. I think everything was great at that time and still now Russians love Greece very much. And especially when they come for vacations, they see the warm attitude of the Greek people. And of course, our historical bond is very tight and then there’s religion and, in these terms, we were very close. But in terms of politics and diplomatic relations, it is absolutely a pity that Putin’s regime chose such a way. And I believe that relations with Greece will be restored very quickly. I think even not necessarily a very democratic government, which could be next, after Putin, in any case, any other government, the first thing it would do is start restoring relations with a country like Greece.
