On strays, gas, rich Greeks, austerity, taxes, wages

Two thousand stray dogs? Not only the tax payers must not be burdened with the expense, it is also inhumane for the stray dogs to be released and fend for themselves. They should be gathered up and put down to prevent the spread of parasitic diseases and stop the utter squandering of taxpayers? money; like the few taxpayers like me that actually pay their tax. Like the garbage everywhere and the graffiti, the stray cats and dogs provide another indication of a country that is totallly out of control, ungovernable and an embarassment to the civilised world.

Peter Moyhritsas

 

?The Greek government invites oil and gas exploration? is a more correct title

So the current power elite in Greece want to save their skin by inviting foreign gas and oil exploration to pay for the deficit and not for the benefit of the Greek people who they have defrauded in the past — especially as they are immune from prosecution, have destroyed the fabric of Greek society as a whole, have driven away the talented young.

Who gives these people the right to sell these oil rights without first consulting with the Greek people about the riches that belong to all of them? Greek people revolt!

Johan Naude

What about the really rich Greeks who have escaped to London?

It?s strange but Alexis Papachelas does not talk about the thousands of rich Greeks who have never paid tax and have escaped to the comfy zones of Mayfair, Little Venice and Belgravia.

These are traitors!

Johan Naude

Embarrassing double standards

When the anarchists burn.. loot.. destroy… attack police officers, the politicians have instructed the police to stand down so as not to provoke and amplify the situation.

For decades now the self-proclaimed anarchists, and not only, continue to provoke and attack the police with Molotov cocktails.

It is pathetic that for years the Police leadership never voiced an opinion and resigned in protest at the double standards applied to its force.

It is clear to me that the Greeks are confused and cannot decide what police force they want and if they want to apply the law evenly.

Train the police and give them modern tools to enforce the law. If someone goes astray, punish them but do same for the criminals, anarchists and other fascist types who make a mockery of democracy and have a free hand to destroy, and even kill police officers and not only.

Greeks living in Greece must decide what kind of police force they want to have and despite isolated incidents if they want to support their hardworking, undertrained, ill-equipped and underpaid police force!

Bill Spartiatis

It is easy

It is easy to start fixing Greece?s problems. Fire half of the government workers. Sell of the massive Greek holdings in real estate. Take the huge real estate holdings away from the Greek Church and sell that off too. Get rid of regulations that make doing business in Greece so hard. Invite foreign companies in to do business in Greece. Encourage foreign companies to build tourist resorts on this government land sold.

All this will mean that Greek government debt will first stop then start to fall with unemployment coming down sharply too.

It?s up to the Greek parliament if it wants a solution or if they wish to continue with this country that doesn’t work.

Huck Berry

Re: Older civil servants lined up for labor pool

On a day when the German vice chancellor visits and presses for real structural reform, we hear that the incompetents in charge of Greece are taking the easy way out and placing all older civil servants in the reserve labour pool.

If the government had any real intention to press ahead with change in the civil service it would surely target those who were simply given jobs through nepotism, are incompetent or were subject to some family tragedy and then ‘co-opted’ into the civil service. As no-one can legally be fired unless their post no longer exists, then these people could have eventually been removed permanently from the civil service.

Instead the older, more competent and experienced workers are to be pushed aside for the time being. This simply shows a deep seated lack of desire for real change and is further evidence of the Greek ‘me first’ attitude; this time from a government that hopes to win civil servants? votes in future elections rather than show the courage to change this society for the better so that we will be better able to cope when we inevitably default and leave the euro.

Richard Graves

Cometh the man?

Mr. Makoutzis’ commentary is accurate in every detail — so the question is: why does Greece have Theodoros Pangalos as Deputy Prime Minister (now one of two such)? And why are so many other ineffective ministers in post? The answer is because Greece has George Papandreou. So the question is: why does Greece have George Papandreou? And the answer is: because his name is Papandreou.

Robert Skailes

Bill foresees MP salary cuts

It is best we stay within the eurozone. If we return to the drachma and people realise there are 300 MPs who collect on the low side 22 million drachmas a month basic salary there will be a revolt.

In addition to the salary of course we have perks and benefits and hangers-on and one can only wonder out aloud what is the Greek taxpayer getting in return.

Seems to me that since the introduction of the euro we have been playing with Monopoly kind of make-believe money and there has been such widespread abuse not too many people realise the extent of the arrogance.

It is no wonder that 300 MPs squeezed into the Parliament instead of the minimum of 200 as required by the 1974 Constitution.

Monica Lane

Florida USA

Tax on pies

Only in Greece in a time if crisis could the Finance Ministry encourage obesity. Maybe fat people are happier and less likely to revolt. Or maybe it is simply someone in the Ministry trying to justify their existence.

Same old, same old.

Anthony

Probe launched into minister’s claims about tax dodgers

Why don’t we also do the patriotic thing and start a probe and cooperate with the Swiss authorities about the 600 billion euros that Greek tax fugitives stashed away?

If we are to chase the owners of a two-bedroom apartments in Kalithea, let us also go after the billionaires who thumb their nose at everyone.

It is high time we brought everyone to justice. Well, almost everyone, since the MPs enacted laws to protect themselves for all crimes committed against the country during their tenure…

Monica Lane

Florida USA

Lower wages?

Lower wages won?t make Greece more competitive. The wages are already low. But this is the result of the fact that whatever work is done in Greece about 65 percent of the effort is wasted because of low effectiveness, low efficiency, poor quality, no process management, poor waste management, no ?client-attitude?, etc.

You meet this in the private and in the non-private sector.

In Greece you need three lives to be able to do the same amount or quality of work you can do in countries like Germany or Holland. That?s why the wages in Greece are about 30 percent of those in these countries.

But there is another side of this issue: In Germany or Holland people do have little or no time to do ?nothing?. Sitting with friends, waiting for the sun, etc

Concerning this quality the, South of Europe is no competition for the North. The only problem is this difference can?t be materialized in euros. My question is: Do we really have to do that? Or should the South European qualities become also integrated in the North of Europe? According to my experience they better do so. This for all kinds of reasons.

Hans van der Schaaf

Greek produce logo

I quote from your article:

“The Greek organization came up with the concept on the occasion of the Cologne fair, given that a nationwide logo for Greek products has yet to materialize, despite announcements made by Development Minister Michalis Chrysochoidis 10 months ago.”

If it takes that long to still be unable to agree on a logo, how in heaven’s name do we expect agreement on how to get out of this economic mess we are in?

As ever, talk, talk, talk.

Do? What does that mean?

Bob Scott

Leave the euro

I would like firstly to thank you for offering your paper free online thereby giving English speakers the opportunity to gain insight into Greek life, especially in these troubled times

 

My letter is prompted by the words of Slovakian party leader  Richard Salik (the dissenting party in the coalition voting against the upcoming EFSF decision).

I quote from Mr Salik: ?How am I to explain to people that they have to pay higher value-added tax [purchasing tax] so the Greeks can get pensions three times the ones in Slovakia.¨

Do the Greek population understand this comment and can you explain why indeed they should contribute.

 

I do not intend to pursue any blame game for how the situation has reached such a level for you but frankly cannot see any reason why you want to persist with membership of the Euro.

Default might be a terrible experience but outside the Euro you could recover with help from the EU and IMF. You would at least eventually control your own country. How on earth could that happen if you are shackled to countries such as Germany? I am English but live in Spain. Here the problems are just beginning with unemployment, particularly youth unemployment rising from already excessive levels. In life everyone makes mistakes, as do countries, and the Euro is indeed a big mistake for some countries. Look at defaults in South America and surely you can see there will be a way back, but not in the Euro. Where you lead others will follow.

 

 

Larry Arber

Namaste Greece

How long before the government nationalises every company in Greece, takes 100% of company and individual earnings in tax and simply issues tokens that citizens can exchange for basic food. It is well on the way to this situation and moves closer with each troika demand that it implements. The Company Store idea was widespread in late 19th century USA so why not a Government Store concept for 21st century Greece? Its political and administrative systems are about 100 years behind the rest of the developed world so it would be appropriate.

Warwick Gibbons

Economy

Please explain to the world and to me how it is possible for such a small economy to topple the world economy? The world economy is approximately 75.5 trillion dollars. Greece’s economy is a miniscule 306-318 million dollars. I don’t get it.

Tina Angle

It’s time to get with the program people

Instead of wasting time and energy complaining, striking and resisting, you’ll be better off in the long run if you get on board now and focus on the future.

Complaining and resisting the changes is accomplishing nothing and as a Greek citizen, you have an obligation to your fellow citizens and country to do what you can to help. To do your part to ensure Greece comes out of this with her head held high.

Strikes are only exacerbating an already severe problem — these folks don’t seem to understand that things cannot and will not revert to what they were in the past.

The bottom line is, would you prefer a job with a cut in pay or no job at all? Would you prefer to be licensed in a profession with more competition or not have your profession at all?

How the problems evolved in the first place is no one’s fault in particular and pointing fingers only takes time and effort away from resolving it.

While I don’t like the idea of paying more taxes than I did in the past, it’s a necessary evil and I’m happy to do it if it means Greece’s financial survival. I can live with less income for now while I make plans to earn more in the future.

And instead of waiting to be taxed, spending all that time striking and complaining, why not spend that energy instead finding ways raising money for Greece? Every Euro we can give is one more step to a stable, financially healthy Greece.

Don’t be a part of the problem… be a part of the solution!

Michalis Kotzakolios

Thomsen warns rescue plan may not succeed

“Thomsen warns rescue plan may not succeed.”

So find a plan that will succeed, Mr Thomsen. 

Kostas Papadopoulos

Poul Thomsen

Thomsen said he had never seen riots against austerity measures as intense as in Greece.

“People express their frustration sometimes in very unpleasant ways,» he said. «That is one of the ugly aspects of my work. And the intensity of it here is new for me.» (Reuters)

Thomsen is an ignorant fool. There have never been riots against austerity measures like his before because there have never been austerity cuts like this before. As usual we see just how removed these so-called ‘experts’ are from the reality of the effect on people?s lives. Right throughout this whole sorry episode we have seen nothing but a mercenary attitude by the money people to protect their poorly judged investments. They have been happy to lend money to Greece over the years making billions. The Germans and French have been happy to sell overpriced products to the country knowing full well that Greece has had to borrow to make payments. Now we are supposed to be grateful that 60 businessmen have come over from Germany and tell us that they see great opportunities here. I am sure they do when the Troika want the Greek worker to be paid 580 Euros a month (take-home pay). They are over here like vultures now the stock market is on its knees and they see cheap pickings. I have said this in posts here in the past, default and tell the lenders how much they will receive on their investment; OK it may mean telling them that future payments will be made when the economy is repaired. If they don’t like it, tough, let them lose their entire investment. Greece can and will recover, the vultures would soon be back offering to loan more. The help which is really needed in this county is the setting up of an efficient, productive and simpler tax collection regime. The Troika are playing hardball with the next bailout trench (when we all know we will get it) take it and then default.

Roly Baker

Clerics of Greece

The few clerics I have come into contact in Greece, I judge them as being one of the best parts of Greece. Men of «Christian values» and who show care for their communities.

I almost at times want to start calling myself a Chistian, but I am not.

Paying clerics out of State coffers has to end, as, well as tax breaks.

I do recognise the historical reasons for the present situation, and one can even have good reasons that it continue.

In a multiethnic world, and multireligious world, Greece is in a great danger of retaining a system that will finance its undoing further. It?s not the Middle Eastern Moslems we have to worry about, but the Western European fascist religious right, that are allready ploughing into the souls of the dispossessed in Greece.

If Orthodox clergy are paid by the state, every other Nick and Thomas who signs up 10 followers will have to be paid and receive tax breaks as well.

In a democracy you can not discriminate between religions.

The clerics in the Holy Dog congregation will need to be paid as well. We might not think having Dogs as God?s representitives on earth is logical, but some of the other traditional practices of other religions are not far removed.

I dare not even mention the name of some small but powerful groups who have avoided paying taxes the world over by calling themselves a religion, but doing nothing but great harm in every society they have infiltrated.

Greece does not need another knife in its back.

Charilaos Lithoxopoulos

Elephant in the room: Taxes outstanding and avoided

Why are the mass of people being targeted when we all know  that unpaid tax bills and years of tax avoidance are not being aggressively resolved or demanded?

The MPs and special interests (in Greece and abroad) may not like such agressive action but the public would.

That it is never discussed in articles such as this makes one believe even journalists are complicit in this key cause of Greece’s deficit.

Mike Algar

Corfu

Rescue plan

Suppose some miracles: the government balances its budget in 2012; reforms liberalizing the economy and reducing red tape are implemented; tax collection improves; inefficient state companies are privatized and become efficient; and a few more. Would everything be fine again?

Greece would still be in a situation where she produces very little. A country which produces very little and exports even less must generate additional income through services (like tourism, shipping) in order to be able to finance its imports. Greece would have to at least double her revenues from exports and services in order to be able to continue imports at the level of 2010 (which was already 30% less than in 2008).

Otherwise, Greece will have to borrow — again — money from abroad in order to cover the shortfall in the external payments balance. And that money would probably flow — again — if Greece achieves all those miracles.

It is as obvious as it is normal that a developing economy like that of Greece needs liquidity from other countries in order to finance its own growth. If that liquidity comes — again — only in the form of debt, Greece will be in 10 years where she is today.

Thus, there are only three solutions to the structural problems of the Greek economy: foreign investment, foreign investment and, again, foreign investment.

Foreign investment does not come by mandate. It comes because foreign capital sees interesting investment opportunities in Greece. Today, only a fool would transfer capital for investment in Greece. As a result, Greece has no choice but to evaluate all possible ways how she can create a business environment which foreign investors will consider as attractive from a security and return standpoint.

Klaus Kastner

Austria

Calm down

Dear Greek neighbours,

Germany has not been planning and is not planning to occupy Greece or to take over the Greek economy for knock-down prices. By contrast, German investors have been repatriating money since 2008 and will continue to do so. By the way, this is one reason why we have overcome recession so quickly. If we now come with investment proposals to Greece, we are trying to help you as good neighbours in Europe. We have noticed that it is wounding your pride to see that your state is in high debts, that it needs external help. Then you should ask yourself what you have contributed to that situation: Did you resist wage hikes beyond productivity progress, massive hiring programs in the civil service after each election and new agricultural subsidy programs? Did you resist an obviously unable administration and tax fraud? Maybe not, because you found other ways to deal with that. For the individual this might even work — but if a whole nation does so, the state must inevitably go bankrupt. However, please quit thinking that there is an evil Nazi Germany coming and that Greece is the eternal victim.

German Taxpayer