Window of opportunity for Greece, Turkey
Turkey’s chief negotiator in accession talks with the European Union, Egemen Bagis, believes that there is a window of opportunity for Greece and Turkey to solve their problems. In an interview with Kathimerini during a recent visit to Athens, Bagis also said he was hopeful that there will be progress in talks on Cyprus before December. What are Turkey’s expectations in terms of what is going to happen in December in the European Union? Hopefully in December we will have more good news out of Cyprus. The rounds of talks that took place between President [Mehmet Ali] Talat and President [Dimitris] Christofias have been going smoothly and we hope that these two leaders who have known each other since their youth can put their differences aside and come up with a solution that their respective communities can embrace. As long as they can come up with a solution, Turkey will support that solution. Turkey wants to see a fair, permanent and livable solution on the island. Do you really think it is feasible within the two months that now remain to really have a solution on Cyprus, also considering the fact that Talat is not as strong as he was some years ago? I believe that if there is a will, there is a way. The fact that Talat is not as powerful as he was is a correct diagnosis, and the reason that he is losing his strength is because there is no solution on the island and he was elected to solve the problem. He and his counterpart Mr Christofias were both elected on the promise to their respective communities to solve the problem and this is their chance. Unless they solve the problem by April when Mr Talat’s term is ending, it is going to be much more difficult because we don’t know if the new leader of the Turkish-Cypriot community will be as determined to solve the problem as Mr Talat is. Let me go to the overall picture now, with Merkel and Sarkozy in power, how realistic do you think it is for Turkey to see its candidacy go on in December? Turkey today is the 15th largest economy in the world. The sixth largest in Europe. We have a very young dynamic nation and we have the fourth-largest work force in Europe. Turkey is a very important bridge to the needs of Europe, such as energy; 70 percent of the energy resources Europe needs are either to the south, to the north or to the east of Turkey. Turkey is also a barrier against the things that Europe wants to prevent, such as illegal immigration, terrorism, narcotics trafficking and so forth. So I think Turkey is a very important country for Europe to ignore. The chapters that we opened so far were opened with the support and blessing of 27 member countries and they are all toward one goal, which is membership. Leaders come and go but countries are there to stay; nations are there to stay. We need Europe as much Europe needs Turkey. Do you think that, if things don’t go as planned, a postponement of opening up further chapters is likely? Would you ever consider a special relationship? There is no legal foundation for a special relationship. If there was a privileged-partnership possibility, then Turkey would be the best example of it because more than 5 million citizens of Turkey live in EU member countries, more that 50 percent of our trade is with EU member countries. More than two-thirds of all foreign investment in Turkey is from EU member countries. Turkey is a full member of every European institution except the EU, where we are negotiating membership. So, the relationship is based on so many dimensions that we have to find solutions to our common problems. OK, but are you concerned about a Greek veto in December? No, I am not concerned about a Greek veto. If I was a Greek or if I was a Cypriot, if I was a European from any nation, I would work for Turkish EU membership more than the Turks themselves because this is a very important peace project. The EU itself is based on a peace project. If the Germans and the British and the French and Italians can live together, there is no reason why we cannot live together with them. You know we have a new government here in Greece. There was a lot of hope some years ago when Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Costas Karamanlis became very close but nothing really moved forward. Why is that and do you think it will change with this new government here in Athens? Historically, when we had a strong government in Athens, there was a weak government in Turkey and when there was a strong government in Ankara there was a weak government in Athens. In 2004, we had strong governments in both countries. But [Karamanlis] didn’t have; he wasn’t prepared maybe to move. Prime Minister [George] Papandreou was elected and, within two days, he received a phone call from Prime Minister Erdogan and within the first week he came to Istanbul and had more than an hour-and-a-half meeting with his Turkish counterpart and they had good chemistry. We have great respect for Giorgos Papandreou because he was known, he is still known, in Turkey to be the architect of the Turkish-Greek relations with his counterpart Ismail Cem. And when he arrived in Turkey, the fact that he went to the graveyard and visited his friend’s burial place was so touching that so many Turks were moved by that gesture. Prime Minister Papandreou enjoys good support in Turkey as a result of that gesture. My prime minister sent a letter to him. It is not usual for Turkish prime ministers to send a three-page letter to the prime minister of Greece. In that letter, he discusses some issues very openly, such as Cyprus, illegal immigration, Turkish EU aspirations and the minority issues. As a result, he invites Prime Minister Papandreou to establish a high-level contact group, under the leadership of the two prime ministers, to come together. I had a chance to discuss this with Prime Minister Papandreou and I observed myself that he also has the right attitude, the positive will to work out our differences. It is a fact that we have some disagreements, it is a fact that we have some issues, but it is also a fact that it would take two courageous leaders to work out the differences and I think we have a great window of opportunity. When you say a solution, how do you envision that in concrete terms? My vision is a Europe where Turkey, Greece and Cyprus are all full members and this entire region is a prosperous, peaceful region where all of our peoples, no matter what their ethnicity, no matter what their religion, no matter what their language is, are living happily with greater democratic standards. On illegal immigration, do you feel that Turkey has some responsibility to stop this flow, because you have a huge burden yourselves. Can you cooperate with Greece and Europe to stop it? Of course, we have a responsibility and we are willing to accept the burden of responsibility as long as it is based on burden sharing, as long as it is based on a fair approach. Until recently, the European Commission’s attitude was that Turkey and Greece should deal with it and we said this is not right. This is a problem for Europe and Europe has to help Turkey and Greece solve it. Very often there are incidents in the Aegean where the two sides come close to a confrontation via aircraft. Are you worried as many people here in Greece are that there might be some sort of hot incident at some point or we are beyond that? I hope not. We would like to see increased trade; we would like to see increased tourism; we would like to see increased culture exchange. The hot incident that you mentioned is not something that we look forward to and hopefully the more dialogue we have, the more exchanges of visits at as high a level as possible, the fewer chances of having that kind of unfortunate event. Do you see the possibility of the famous hotline being established again and being operational? I think we already have direct access between our two prime ministers, between me and Mr [Dimitris] Droutsas and our bureaucrats. We have recently sent a very wise and able diplomat as our new ambassador here in Athens and the whole team is really encouraged and motivated toward increasing our relations with Greece, not only for bilateral reasons but also for multilateral reasons and for European reasons. We think this new attitude is going to help solve our problems, which will benefit our peoples simultaneously. Will the Halki Seminary be opened some time? We will try to work on it. I am very much interested in seeing an opening in that, partly because most of Turkey’s Greek Orthodox live in my constituency, given His Highness Patriarch Vartholomaios lives in my constituency and he has told me that he has voted for me. If I can be his hope for solutions, then I have to deliver and I am looking for ways. Of course, there are also the problems of the Turkish Muslim community living in Greece and they also have issues, but no country should deal with the problems of their own citizens based on reciprocity.
